30 Minutes to a General Strike with OPSEU SEFPO Executive Board Member Julius Arscott Artwork

The Red Review

The Red Review, brought to you by Socialist Action, brings the revolutionary struggle in Canada to life with street recordings, interviews, and deep analysis. Every three months, The Red Review releases seasonal analysis on the most important struggles in Canada and internationally, from struggles for Indigenous self-determination to resisting Canada imperialism. In between, we interview community organizers, authors, politicians, and unionists.

All Episodes

The Red Review

30 Minutes to a General Strike with OPSEU SEFPO Executive Board Member Julius Arscott

November 09, 2022 • Season 2 • Episode 13

All the people who work on The Red Review live and work on stolen Indigenous lands across Turtle Island. There can be no reconciliation without restitution, which includes Land Back, RCMP off Indigenous land, and seizing the assets of the major resource corporations and returning them to the commons.

We were 30 minutes away from a call for a general strike. 30 minutes. RankandFile leaked it, and militants with exec positions in large unions confirmed — at 10 a.m. on Monday, November the 7th, multiple large unions with the backing of the Ontario Federation of Labour and the Canadian Labour Congress were going to announce a general strike. This is the story of how we got to that point.

Hosts Emily and Daniel recount that events that led this labour movement to precipice of historic mass job action — the OSBCU strike, Bill 28, and OPSEU solidarity wildcat actions. They are joined by Julius Arscott, a three-term OPSEU SEFPO Executive Board Member and 2021 candidate for President of the Canadian Labour Congress, who shares what happened behind the scenes and why a general strike is closer than in a very long time.

You can reach us at redreview[at]protonmail.com and click here to join our new Discord server! If you enjoy our work and would like to support us financially, check out our Ko-Fi page, where you can tip us or set up a monthly donation!

You can find Socialist Action on Youtube, Facebook, and Twitter, or visit our website for more information. Socialist Action also plays a leading role in the Worker's Action Movement and the NDP Socialist Caucus.

Websites:
Canadian Civil Liberties Association on Bill 28

Videos:
JP Hornick Speech on Monday, Nov. 7.

Support the show

Daniel Tarade
We were 30 minutes away from a call for a general strike. 30 minutes. RankandFile leaked it and militants with exec positions in large unions confirmed — at 10 a.m. on Monday, November the seventh, multiple large unions with the backing of the Ontario Federation of Labour and the Canadian Labour Congress were going to announce a general strike. This is the story of how we got to that point. I'm Daniel Tarade. I use he/they pronouns. I am a CUPE 3902 steward.

Emily Steers
And hello, my name is Emily, I use she/her pronouns, and I am no longer a member of a union. but I was a founding member of PSAC local 902.

Daniel Tarade
All members of Socialist Action, the group that sponsors this podcast, live and work on stolen Indigenous land. We say land back! We say self-determination for Indigenous peoples, and that includes expropriating the assets of the major resource developers and returning them to the commons. Today we're talking about the OSBCU strike that within one week, teetered on the verge of a general strike. We're going to talk about what led up to that, give you some quick background based on what you can glean from the headlines and from in person at Queen's Park, and then we're going to talk with one of our own union insiders, revolutionary socialist Julius Arscott, who is an executive with the Ontario Public Service Employees Union, who was involved with some of these discussions between labour leaders and who has the inside scoop on what was one of those weeks in labor history that just gives me goosebumps. We're at a historic point here in Ontario right now and where we go in the next few weeks might make this whole conversation just a little footnote. But for now, this footnote is absolutely massive. So let's get started. Emily?

Emily Steers
Yeah, the Ontario School Board Council of unions or OSBCU represents about 55,000 CUPE education workers. These locals will individually bargain with the employer about conditions specific to a particular school, but general working conditions including wages and benefits are negotiated collectively by the OSBCU. These 10s of 1000s of education workers are among the lowest paid in the education system. They are the educational assistants, custodians, school librarians, administrative assistants, social workers, early childhood educators, safety monitors, and more. On average, they get paid about $39,000 a year. More than 70% of Ontario's 55,000 frontline education workers are women, and more than half work at least one additional job to make ends meet, and 60% of them are laid off every summer. But what about this set the stage for a general strike?

Daniel Tarade
OSBCU represented the first union to bargain with the province of Ontario after Bill 124. Bill 124 kept all public sector employees in Ontario to a maximum annual wage increase of 1% for three years. But importantly, this wage freeze kicked in asynchronously with different unions depending on when their collective agreements expired. And so for OSBCU, they were the first one coming up for when they can finally freely collectively bargain. From 2012 to 2021, these lowest paid education workers already took an 11% wage cut, driven by Bill 132 and compounded by the inflationary crisis. But they decided to take up the fight. They demanded no more education cuts, more frontline staff in schools for students to succeed, and a significant pay increase.

Emily Steers
So by the time workers took on a strike vote, their demand of an increase of $3.25 per hour each year over a three year collective agreement was countered by the Ford government's offer of an increase of 33 to 53 cents per hour — so the equivalent of the cost of less than a tank of gas per month at current prices. With a deep organizing model of engaging members through one-to-one conversation, the union emerged with a 96.5% of members supporting a strike action. Even more impressively, 83% of those 55,000 workers voted. Compare that with the recent 29% voter turnout in the municipal election of Toronto, when people feel listened to and when their vision is worth fighting for, democracy flourishes. But with Ford not budging, the OSBCU announced that they would strike on Friday, November 4, while Education Minister Stephen Lecce drew a line in the sand and said that the PC government would not tolerate a single school day loss to a strike and they took the nuclear option.

Daniel Tarade
Bill 28, Keeping Students in Class Act, both declared the OSBCU strike unlawful before it even began and unilaterally imposed a four-year contract on those education workers in one fell swoop. If you're thinking that this legislation violates the rights of these education workers, you're definitely onto something. In fact, an appended explanatory note stated that the act is declared to operate notwithstanding sections 2, 7, and 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and the act will apply despite the Human Rights Code. In other words, despite violating those pesky human rights, this PC government passed the bill anyways, and to actually accomplish this, they invoke the notwithstanding clause to circumvent any constitutional challenge to the legislation. This notwithstanding clause allows legislatures to override parts of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms for a five year term.

Emily Steers
So well, multiple governments have violated workers' rights in recent memory — Justin Trudeau legislating the Montreal dock workers back to work in 2021, and the postal workers in 2018, not to mention Ford's Bill 124 — it's been a hot minute since such a blatant overreach of power, such a blatant attack on workers' rights. In a move that may end up reverberating for decades to come, Ford decided to poke the sleeping bear that is Canadian labour. And lo and behold, labour fought back.

Daniel Tarade
You know, Lenin has that quote, there are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. And this is one of those weeks that's just filled with things to look at, analyze, to explore and to build on. So first, after Ford was announcing their intention to pass this, what many are describing as such a draconian, piece of legislation, CUPE Ontario and the Ontario Federation of Labour called for an emergency rally on 24-hours' notice for Tuesday, November 1 outside the Ministry of Labour in Toronto, where the president of OSBCU, Laura Walton, announced that they are going on strike that Friday, whether Doug Ford passes such legislation or not. In other words, these workers committed to an illegal strike to defend their rights. OPSEU followed on Thursday, November 3, with a big announcement. This union, where Julius has an executive, announced that their 8000 members that work in education would also go on strike on the Friday. They would join their comrades in solidarity with a bonafide wildcat strike. Friday, November the fourth shaped up as the beginning of a battle in the class war, where for the first time in decades, both sides actually showed up. You had 10s of 1000s of workers and allies walking that picket line that surrounded Queen's Park, the provincial legislature.

Emily Steers
There were also similar strikes outside of MPP offices all over the province, including here in my hometown, where I was happy to stand as an ally alongside hundreds of education workers picketing outside of our local MPPs office.

Daniel Tarade
And then a very funny thing happened. Over the weekend, rumors began spreading. On Monday, major unions would announce a general strike to defeat this latest attack on workers' rights. Monday morning, I was driving to Queen's Park with three other comrades squeezed together in a car loaded with our canopy, banners, flags, and leaflets. And my concern was to make sure that we got there before this press conference, so that we can hear what I was hoping would be a historic announcement — a general strike. Because the night before, I received an email from my local, CUPE 3902, with the subject line reading, "It's Time to Talk General Strike." On Monday, at an emergency general membership meeting, our local would discuss both financially supporting the striking OSBCU workers and joining in a general strike. But as we're driving to Queen's Park that Monday, at 9:15, our radio switch to coverage of a Ford press conference.

Emily Steers
So even though provincial legislature was not sitting the week of November 7, Doug Ford gave this presser from inside Queen's Park, which you could tell because you could hear the sound of picketing workers outside. He announced that his PC government would repeal Bill 28 as a gesture of good faith if CUPE called off the strike. Two things became very clear in that moment, Ford was scared and this move was a strategy to divide the workers' movement. So at Queen's Park on Monday, November 7, the picket still stretched the entire way around the legislature. 1000s of workers milled around Queen's Park with support from numerous socialist and Marxist organizations, and the crowd responded with cheers when union leaders announced that Ford offered to rescind the legislation.

Daniel Tarade
One particularly jubilant moment came when the striking Amalgamated Transit Union Local 1587 joined the picket. The 2200 GO Transit bus operators, station attendants, and other workers represented by this union went on strike that morning. Clearly workers felt more confident to advance their own struggle and to join forces to win the wins we also so desperately needed. But the press conference where labour leaders would announce the next steps was delayed. It seemed that Ford's offer renewed discussion among the various unions.

Emily Steers
So at 11 a.m., CUPE National President Mark Hancock led off the presser alongside, and this is an incomplete list; CUPE Ontario President Fred Hahn, the Canadian Labour Congress, ATU Canada, the OFL, elementary teachers Federation, the OSSTF, AEFO, USW, UFCW, Unifor, Ontario building trades, sheetmetal workers, IATSE, CUPW, OPSEU, ONA, and PSAC. As the list of union representatives was read out on the air at the press conference, many of us standing there listening around the province were jubilant. This was an incredible show of solidarity, a show of solidarity that is unprecedented in recent history. Private sector and public sector unions from every level were here because this legislation threatened every single one of us. And despite this intense, visible sign of solidarity and the energy clearly present among the workers, Laura Walton, the president of OSBCU, announced that as a gesture of good faith, they would be collapsing protests sites at Queen's Park and around the province starting tomorrow, which is today, November 8. Soon after, people began filing out of Queens Park and things returned to quiet. For now,

Daniel Tarade
The workers won this battle, but the class war continues. So now we're gonna go to Julius to really get the skinny on what this moment in time represents for the people who for decades have been building up the militant labour movement in this country. Julius is an executive with the Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU), helped relaunch the Workers' Action Movement (WAM) in 2018 — WAM it to the bosses. And Julius ran as well, for one of the executive positions at the Canadian Labour Congress in 2021. Which position did you run for again, Julius?

Julius Arscott
I ran for President.

Daniel Tarade
Julius running for president with three other people. If you want to read about the Labour Forward slate, read about that later. Julius, welcome to The Red Review for your second time now.

Julius Arscott
Thank you very much for the invitation. Great pleasure to be here.

Daniel Tarade
Julius, it's hard to deny that two days of wildcat strikes and the willingness to announce a general strike is a victory for the labour movement and a validation of the slogan that WAM has put forward since 2018 — Dump Thug Ford with a General Strike. On the other hand, these horribly exploited workers in OSBCU are going back to work without a contract in what seems to be the same position they were in before Bill 28. So what are your thoughts? Is this a win for labour? Is this a loss? Or is this something in between that we really can't fully judge just yet?

Julius Arscott
Well, a lot has happened. And I think that you folks provided a great summary of listing of the events. I think that we're seeing a lot of mixed response to the events that have taken place. In order to understand what's going on, we should separate what has happened. There are two things that stand out to me, two issues and results. And we're not finished with either of them by the way. The first is of course CUPE OSBCU and their bargaining. What came out of the decision on Monday was that they were going to close down their strike for the time being, and their members would go back to work while they negotiated a contract. The second item is issue of Bill 28 and the notwithstanding clause and the impact that that would have had on the labour movement, not just in Ontario, but across Canada, and the impact on equity-deserving groups, which was brought to light by the Canadian Civil Liberties Association. In my view, I believe that the labour movement responded with a plan, and there was a plan, for a general strike to take place on Monday, November the 14th, to defeat Bill 28 and the notwithstanding clause. It was going to happen. I don't want to dismiss obviously, we need to do everything that we can to support CUPE OSBCU and continue to do so. I'll talk a little bit about that. But I believe that Bill 28 and the notwithstanding clause was the issue that galvanized workers to push their union leaders into action. And the union leaders, I believe, also saw the writing on them all that really the existence of our movement dependent on the defeat of Bill 28.

Emily Steers
Yeah, absolutely. That was very much the energy I was seeing. And the response from people was this absolutely cannot stand. Every single union that I saw out, and there are a number of unions out on picket lines in solidarity, as we know, not just at Queen's Park, but at picket lines all across the country, everyone knew that it's like they're going after the education workers because they're an easy target — or So Ford and Lecce thought. They went after an easy target: underpaid, undervalued workers. And they thought, hey, this would be an easy way to break the labour movement. So we don't have to deal with those pesky unions, we can just refer back to Bill 28.

Daniel Tarade
Julius, just so we're all on the same page. If Ford did not announce at 9:15 on Monday the rescinding of Bill 28, were all unions in this country committing to going on strike to bring down this bill?

Julius Arscott
I can tell you that originally, we had our press conference and Ford found out. He saw the writing on the wall, he got information from his advisors that he better step in and make a change. Because yes, indeed, the labour movement in Ontario was all on side for a mass picket to take place on Saturday, November the 12th. And Monday, November the 14th, would be the beginning of a general strike. It was never a plan that it would be a one day event, even though there was a date. But it was to continue, absolutely. In fact, I'd go even further than that to say that based on some of the conversations I had, and I was at the press conference, if CUPE O, the OSBCU, if they had decided that they were going to continue the strike, that OPSEU, CUPE, Unifor, and steel workers were all going to go out.

Emily Steers
Wow.

Daniel Tarade
And so that's exactly the split that kind of grew out of Ford's announcement than, eh?

Julius Arscott
well, it was an anticipation. I mean, I think that the OFL, the Ontario Federation of Labour itself cannot direct any of the union affiliates. It really is up to each affiliate to determine their own actions. And there are several elements that play into that — the balance of forces between where the members are at, what they want, and what the leadership wants. I think that, you know, there were conversations, people trying to interpret Doug Ford's announcement and what it actually meant, and that's why CUPE demanded his promise or pledge in writing and made a determination from there. And that's why we were delayed in our own press conference. Up to the press conference, we were expecting them to make announcements for the massive day of action and the general strike. It was a real thing. The worst kept secret was that we were going to have a general strike.

Emily Steers
Yeah, that really didn't stay under wraps for long did it?

Julius Arscott
But one of the press journalists asked Mark Hancock, and he's the president of CUPE National, if there was plans for a general strike, and he made a joke about, maybe if you buy my book, when I retire, I'll reveal it to you. I think that was the wrong thing to say at the time. And I think it still is the wrong thing. I think it's important that workers know that this happened. That we were, as you said, 30 minutes away from announcing a general strike. It was a real thing. And I think that there's a lot of lessons to be learned from this experience. Not only that we gained a massive victory with tactics that have basically been ruled out for decades. I'm talking about defying back-to-work legislation, which is something that the socialists in the labour movement and other progressives have been calling for for years and years — that back-to-work legislation must be met with defying such legislation, which would be an illegal strike, but that it was necessary for us to regain our power, our bargaining power. And not only that, but OPSEU SEFPO, our education sector, sector three, in the broader public service, their members wanted to engage in a sympathy strike in solidarity with OSBCU members. And that in itself is also hugely historic.

Emily Steers
So then at what point following the emergency rally outside of the Ministry of Labour did the OPSEU exec begin discussing supporting its own wildcat strike action?

Julius Arscott
Well, we actually discussed that on Sunday, October the 30th. I brought it up, I sent an email, the good socialist that I am, I sent an email to the executive because at this point, it had been made public that Ford was going to introduce this draconian law preemptively. And I said, Listen, I know that I talk about mass action all the time, I've campaigned on it, everybody knows me as general strike guy.

Daniel Tarade
It's a good thing to be known as I think,

Julius Arscott
Well, certainly I feel vindicated now. I said, we have to do something. We cannot allow this to continue. I just put it out there. And I said something has got to be done. And we had other board members chime in and participate in the discussion. But you know, the decision came after the members approached our President JP Hornick and Laurie Nancekivell, the First Vice-President/Treasurer, to see if it was something that can be done. And what they were told is that it was their decision and that the union would have their back no matter what happened, and that's in the face of fully knowing that not only would the union face fines — they were threatened with fines along with any worker who participated in an illegal strike. So those two things, the solidarity wildcat strike and defiying back-to-work legislation were two key demands that socialists have been calling for in the labour movement for decades. And they resulted in a victory. When we say that mass action gets the goods, it's true.

Emily Steers
I've seen a lot of headlines and a lot of commentary that says, the union's went up against Ford and Ford blinked. So we have now kind of realized the extent of our power. Oh, look, when we make a very real threat to shut down the province in a very real way, we could get whatever we're asking for. And it was clear that Ford wanted this bill. I mean, we all know that they were never intending to have an honest and fair negotiation with the education workers. They had this bill in the works ready to go for a while. And the fact that they backed down so quickly, is very, very promising. Imagine if we had gotten to the point of a general strike, what do you think we could have demanded?

Julius Arscott
Well, we had conversations about that. Because, you know, a general strike creates a situation where demands can be expanded. A big issue that affects our members in OPSEU SEFPO of course, is Bill 124, which caps our wages at 1%. And it's, especially now, well below the rate of inflation. It's a slap in the face, it's an insult to public sector workers who have been working through the pandemic. And you know, before the pandemic, they were, you know, taking zeros and ones percent for years. The wages of public sector workers are way down compared to the private sector. But what else could have been done? I mean, I think the ultimate goal of the general strike would have been to bring down the Doug Ford government. And we have an example of that that happened, you know, 10 years ago or so in Quebec, where the students and workers brought down a majority Liberal government. And we could have easily done that in Ontario.

Daniel Tarade
Finally give Quebec a run for its money.

Emily Steers
They were gonna send workers to us. They were sending workers our way, you know, they would have shown us a few lessons.

Julius Arscott
I think that it's entirely possible that if we had a general strike in Ontario over Bill 28, which would have affected all workers across Canada, that a general strike could have spread across the country. That's entirely possible. And I don't think it's a stretch. And it still could. I want to say that this issue of this general strike is not over. I think we're closer to a general strike today than we've been in a very long time. And I think that's important to acknowledge because there's a lot of folks out there who feel deflated by what has happened. And it's understandable. It's understandable because we face so many defeats, so many disappointments from our labour leadership for a very long time. It's important that we acknowledge our victories and how we got there. And it's important to acknowledge that this victory was as a result of the left in the labour movement. It came as a result of rank-and-file workers demanding that their leadership act, and it came out of the demand to use the tactics of the left, of defying back-to-work legislation, illegal strikes to attain a goal, of threats of mass action, which were real threats, they were going to happen, and winning. So we won the battle against Bill 28. That's one battle in the class war. And, of course, the battle that CUPE OSBCU is waging is ongoing. And we all need to do whatever we can to support them. Because the legislature doesn't open until next week, Monday. That's when we assume Bill 28 is going to be rescinded. Right? But we have to wait and see what happens. And we don't know what the response is going to be. If for instance, the OSBCU was not happy with their deal, and they go back out. Will unions respond? What I'm learning in OPSEU is that we are anticipating, we are going to be telling our members to build towards a general strike. We're not done, and we represent 180,000 members. It's funny because I just did a vlog for the first time. And I realized after it was done, it's already out of date. So I'm sorry, comrades, it's likely that this podcast, I know you'll get it out quick, but it may be out of date quickly. I'm willing to come back.

Emily Steers
That's the reality of these kinds of situations.

Daniel Tarade
So before we talk about where this could still go and what the next steps are, I want to bring it back to the question of the rank-and-file pushing on the leadership. You already mentioned in OPSEU, that was one of the pushes, you know. You were on the exec pushing or at least starting a conversation about solidarity wildcat strikes, but ultimately it was the rank-and-file coming to the exec and asking or even demanding that they show solidarity with their co-workers, with their comrades. So I want to talk also then about the OSSTF, the Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation. At both the emergency rally on Tuesday and at the CUPE Ontario action on the Saturday before Monday, where they shut down an intersection, there was some smattering from the rank-and-filers there that seemed upset with their leadership over their lack of solidarity with OSBCU. And this comes down to the issue of the digitization of the picket lines. I don't think this would have happened before the pandemic, but after the pandemic, with the schools that were shut down on Friday and Monday, some school boards were expecting that the teachers teach online. And you saw a lot of interesting discourse. Is this crossing a picket line? You had teachers talking, they feel like scabs facilitating this online teaching. So what can you share about what happened there?

Julius Arscott
From what I understand, there was a lot of pressure on the leadership of OSSTF and ETFO, for those unions to join the illegal strike that the OPSEU folks had done on the Friday. So you know, I had heard that rank-and-file workers of those unions were reaching out to their leadership and demanding that they act. OSSTF and ETFO, you know, they're the most powerful teachers unions in Ontario. Totally made sense. This is an education sector issue, they should be there. And they should be able to see when an opportunity arises, and that they should take advantage of it. As far as I know, that pressure was leading into when the strike started on the Friday, and the rally that took place at Yonge and Dundas on Saturday. All the while, there's an under swell of members pushing their leadership for action. And at the same time, there's meetings happening at high levels of the Ontario Federation of Labour, the Canadian Labour Congress, and what had developed out of those meetings for plans for mass action. So were OSSTF and ETFO going to participate in the general strike? Yes, as far as I know, they were going to, along with everybody else. I mean, there was all kinds of talk about what that was going to look like and strategies, including, you know, interruptions of shipping lanes, blocking ports across the country. I mean, it was going to be big.

Daniel Tarade
Be still my beating heart.

Julius Arscott
Well, yes. And people should know this, because it really happened. And I think I want to talk a little bit before we move on about this discussion about demands for mass action. I think that one of the things that also the left should celebrate is the fact that the argument that we've made for many years about the need for mass action, that it's something that's possible, the result of what we saw demonstrates that it is absolutely a doable thing. We can do it at a moment's notice. Those in the labour movement, who for years have been focused solely on one-on-one conversations and breakout groups and charts and discussions about broad issues that, frankly, are exercises to deflate energy in the room — and I've been an activist for 15 years, so I've seen a lot of it — many of these folks have made arguments about and dismissed those have called for mass action for years. I think there's a bit of crow to be eaten, when it comes to that, because I mean, there's no doubt that when you go into bargaining, you mobilize and organize your membership. You have discussions, you're in bargaining, that's the norm. It's always been like that. But to say that we need to do that on such a broad level in order to engage in mass action is nonsense. It's total nonsense. On issues that are important enough for the workers' movement, such as Bill 28, or such as Bill 124 I would argue, even sick days, and the huge wealth disparity, all of these issues are issues workers can galvanize behind. It's something that we can organize around. And I think a lot of those issues would come out in a general strike, regardless of what conditions create it. I think that a lot of these folks who tell us that it can't be done are wrong. And I think it's important that those of us who have been calling for mass action for a very long time, celebrate the victory that came out of Monday and remember it and make reference to it at every opportunity going forward.

Emily Steers
This is a huge vindication of everything you've been arguing for over a decade. And so when you helped re-launch the Workers' Action Movement back in 2018, the demand for mass job action to dump Doug Ford, as we've been saying, that was there from the beginning. And even though the resolutions we've brought to the Ontario Federation of Labour in 2019 and 2021, they did receive support from about 40% of the delegation, but the labour leadership has largely ignored the willingness of the rank-and-file to fight against the capitalist class. You know, we've been talking about like feeling validated in how people responded to these wildcat strikes. How do you see the labour leadership responding to those demands going forward after the incredible events of this week?

Julius Arscott
Well, I think that the leadership of the vast majority of the labour movement, of labour unions is still going to remain hesitant with using mass action as an option. This time around, workers saw the writing on the wall. But frankly, I think that many of the leadership also realized that the precedent that would be set by passing Bill 28 would have such a detrimental effect on the ability for labour organizations, labour unions to function, that they had to do something. But I think that if they could sneak out of it, they would. And I suspect that much of the criticisms that I think are valid, some of them are valid for sure, of the decision that was made stem back to that — the leadership of many unions are interested in preserving their own power within their organizations. Because when you engage the membership and mobilize them in such an action, when workers go through an experience like a general strike, they become mobilized, and they are more apt to participate and engage and challenge the leadership on decisions that are made. And leadership generally does not like that. There's a few exceptions. And it's not just because I'm biased in OPSEU SEFPO. This is my third term as being a board member. I was there while Smokey Warren Thomas was there. And the leadership at that time, who I was butting heads with and challenging whenever I could, that changed six months ago with the election of JP Hornick and Laurie Nancekivell. It's a dramatic change in the largest public sector union in Ontario. And that change created the willingness to support sector three education workers in our union to go out on a wildcat. That never would have happened under the former administration. So it's important to push from below. But it's also important for the rank-and-file, for socialists to run for the top positions in every union. None of it is out of reach. And all options should be on the table. We should be getting our ideas out by any means necessary. That often does mean running for positions and not winning. And I've certainly been part of many of those campaigns.

Daniel Tarade
Me too!

Emily Steers
Me three!

Julius Arscott
But you know, our ideas accumulate in the consciousness of the rank-and-file over time, and the meeting that I participated in tonight with OPSEU SEFPO leaders from all sectors of the union, talking about over 100 people who participated, and that's a big number — a meeting like that has never taken place in OPSEU as far as I'm aware — to discuss what our next steps were. Our members, and I think workers at large, are in a state like a tinderbox. They're ready to go. And I'm hearing that across the board in different unions as well. So I agree CUPE OSBCU may have lost some momentum for a period of time. They have a lot of public support right now. But I don't think it would take much for us to gear back up again. In the popular imagination of workers, the idea that a general strike is something that's within our hands reach is real.

Emily Steers
Yeah. And that's amazing. I want to say, you know, JP, I felt gave far and away the best speech at the press conference on Monday. For those of you who did not hear it, it is linked in the show notes. It is worth watching. And I was impressed by what she said. She said, Our workers are not standing down, they are standing by. And I can imagine that the Ford government is going to be treading very carefully for the foreseeable future. Because you're right. We are in a moment where people are angry, people are frustrated. And with Doug Ford conceding on Bill 28, people have realized the extent of their power,

Daniel Tarade
The feeling amongst the rank-and-file, amongst the 55,000 OSBCU workers on strike, the 8000 OPSEU workers on strike, I was at Queen's Park when Laura Walton announced that they would be decommissioning their protest sites the next day. And you can hear the cheering and the energy in the crowd when first Laura Walton announced Doug Ford offered to rescind the whole bill, then there was even more cheering when Laura said that it will be in such a way that the bill was never even the law in the first place. It will be anulled. And then when she started to say, in a show of good faith, mirroring Doug Ford's language back at him, that they will take down to protest sites, you could have heard a pin drop. And I think in that moment, the workers, they were ready to hear, And we're going to stay out anyways. Doug Ford can take down the bill, but we still have a legal strike here to win. That's what it felt like in the moment. And now you can recover from that. But what's your feeling on the general appetite of the worker in the labour movement right now?

Julius Arscott
Yeah, I was hoping for that announcement as well, Daniel, and I think that many of us actually at the press conference, I will say and admit, were hoping for that as well. And it wasn't just from OPSEU folks. I think that there's a level of disappointment that we didn't engage in a mass action. And I get this sense from conversations that I've had with, you know, co-workers, people that I've talked to, you know, on the street on my way home or whatever. It's confusing what happened in some sense. You know, I think that we anticipate when we go into a negotiation, sort of a total victory. And I'm not talking about the revolution. Talking about even in a situation like this, there really is two sets of demands. But in our imagination, we combined it into a single thing, and that's fine. But when one works out the way that we want, and the other one doesn't, it can cause some levels of demoralization. So you know, people are upset with not getting everything that you want, and we deserve what we want. And I think that there's a real hunger for action. I think there's a real hunger for demonstrations of solidarity, especially after you know, a pandemic, where many of us have been isolated and suffering. And it's not just the isolation that's the issue, but it's the high cost of living. It's the, you know, the dread over climate change. It's the dread over imperialist war and wars of aggression. People want to see some way out of this mess that capitalism has brought us to. Not everyone will view it as capitalism, but we know that that's what it is. Any sort of indication like that was something that I think that people are really longing for.

Emily Steers
Just broadening out the context a little bit. I think we are seeing a lot of that right now all over the place. This renewed hope, this renewed vigor of unions and people putting a renewed faith in the power of union representation. I mean, we're seeing massive, massive wins in unionization efforts in the retail sector, for example, like Chapters Indigo, and Starbucks, and Amazon in the United States. These massive massive gains because as a huge result of the pandemic, people are realizing the power of collective agreements, collective negotiation, collective action. I think a lot of people throughout the entire pandemic have been very hungry to see their needs represented, and to harken back to our episode several months ago about the convoy, you know, working people are suffering. So what does an actual working-class movement look like? This is that! this is what the actual working-class movements standing up to the government looks like.

Julius Arscott
Yeah, I think if we had launched into a general strike, it would have made the convoy in Ottawa look like a fart in the wind. And that would have been a good thing for everybody.

Emily Steers
It would have shown people what our power looks like versus the power of the right wing.

Julius Arscott
That's right.

Emily Steers
This is what our power has the capacity to do.

Julius Arscott
Absolutely. You know, I think again, it's important to reflect on the fact that parts of Bill 28 and the notwithstanding clause specifically targeted the language in the Charter, which protected human rights based on sex, sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity, all that stuff. This is how insidious Bill 28 was — the reasoning that Ford targeted that part of the charter was specifically because 75% of the membership are women, and they didn't want to have to face a legal challenge of discrimination based on sex. And you can imagine that if Bill 28, and the nonwithstanding clause remained and was passed, and that it was used to shut down the strike, that any government in the future, for any reason, could use it to target equity-deserving groups, and how dangerous that is. And I think that the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, I think we talked about this earlier, but they really raise the alarm that this is something that affects everyone. It affects you whether or not you're in a union, because it is far broader than just an attack on unions, which in and of itself is extremely important. It needs to be something that's challenged. But you could just imagine a far-right government being elected that wanted to target a particular group. There would be precedent set.

Emily Steers
With LGBTQ people in the United States and in the UK, we're already seeing that precedent being set.

Julius Arscott
Absolutely. I mean, you know, the rescinding of women's right to choose the United States, I would think that that would be a target for the far-right here as well.

Emily Steers
Absolutely. I think this action over the past week really has embodied the spirit of an injury to one is an injury to all. And we have stood up and said, No, you cannot harm our brothers and sisters and siblings in CUPE you cannot come after them, because we will protect each other. And we will do that with monetary donations, and we will put our bodies on the line marching in the streets to make sure that they are safe, because their safety is our safety.

Daniel Tarade
To wrap this up now. What could be next? We're still in the fog, so to speak, and there are some conversations that are going behind doors that are more closed than maybe they ought to be, so we don't know the full picture. But I know even you're alluding to earlier, in OPSEU, you're still having these big conversations. So give us a number of the possibilities that could happen next.

Julius Arscott
Well, I don't have a crystal ball and things could change very quickly. It's possible that we'll be out very soon. Who knows? CUPE OSBCU is negotiating with the Ford government. What I can tell you is that in OPSEU, we are being told, and we're in discussions with our membership about supporting them if they go out on strike. We are telling our membership in the next few days to continue to prepare for a general strike. And I'll tell you that in the meeting that we had today with over 100 leaders of our union, that people are amped up, and they're excited, and they want to do this. In fact, I didn't hear a single person in the meeting say that this is not a good idea. As I said, it's a tinderbox. And people want action. And I can't report on what's happening in other unions. But if what I heard at the press conference is true, about other unions supporting these workers in CUPE OSBCU, then it's possible that we could have four major unions go out. That's a possibility. I don't know. As time changes the situation, the balance of forces change too. Maybe we'll have more, it's hard to say. But I think that in the meantime, there really is no drawback in unions using this as a mobilizing exercise, to organize and mobilize their membership to build our locals. The more mobilized the local is, the better capacity it has to negotiate a good contracts when their contracts come up. So it's a win-win. This whole experience has been a win-win for the labour movement and for workers in my opinion. It may have not gone as far as we want, but it's still good.

Daniel Tarade
I'll even share in my own local, CUPE 3902, we had a meeting on Monday that was supposed to be opening the vote to join a general strike. And so when we had to pivot because there wasn't a call for a general strike, instead, we discussed Okay, there is a local at our university, the same employer U of T, CUEP 3261, that is education workers, the most precarious workers at U of T, custodians, different support staff, and they're in a legal strike position for November 14. With the same energy amongst our members, and we had the biggest union meeting on Monday that I've ever been to for my local — we had 250 People in this local meeting, we normally have 50, like you're saying the membership is really getting engaged with this — we're discussing going on our own then illegal sympathy strike with the other local at the employer then. If we can't put it towards the general strike right now, we're still trying to build up that power here. And so that has been such a invigorating spark this past week for myself, just to see even at my university then. Okay, we all saw what solidarity looks like. So let's keep it going.

Julius Arscott
Exciting times.

Emily Steers
And what an incredible vindication of everything we have been fighting for.

Julius Arscott
Absolutely.

Emily Steers
Thank you so much, Julius, for taking the time today to talk to us. I know you've been incredibly busy, and it's been a very intense couple of weeks for you. So I'm incredibly grateful that you've taken the time to talk to us and talk to our listeners. I know I've certainly found this really wonderful and informative, just to get a clearer picture of everything that's going on behind the scenes, and we'll be staying alert. In the words of JP, we'll be standing by.

Julius Arscott
See on the picket lines.

Emily Steers
See you on the picket lines, comrades.